Tornado….whiff?

04.01.2009

With the absence of the oft-rumored “Championship Update” for Street Fighter 4 on this March 31st-turned-April 1st, I’m left to believe that the original date was nothing but a cruel joke played on me (and the rest of the non-SHORYUKEN loving populace online) by Capcom.

Well played chaps, well played. Dreams of replays and tourney lobbies will continue to haunt my sleep and make me restless.

I don’t like your latency based input lag anyway. So there.

So with my dreams dashed, I almost reluctantly went into the training mode with my (unfortunate?) main Abel and worked on some moves. Jump-ins, cross ups, a bit of mixup, still trying to get my brain around the EX cancelling with required-forward-dash that WON’T make me eat a DP or throw…my brain knows what it wants to do, my hands kind of get the message, but the controller I have in my hands doesn’t quite get the message. Surprisingly enough, it’s not a 360 controller that’s the source of my problems. Nor…is it a Dualshock 3. With both immediate assumptions out of the way, we have no choice to settle upon…my arcade stick.

..and there goes my street cred. Sorry guys.

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against them. As long as I’ve been playing….well, anything, I’ve always run into an arcade stick of sorts, it’s inescapable. Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter (and its thousands of iterations), KOF, Metal Slug, the VS series, each and every one of them were indulged in my youth through the grasp of an arcade stick, and times were good. Even now, I’ll prefer a stick over a pad for shooters and the like, it’s just in me. For fighters though, something is wrong.

I know exactly where it started too. See, I may have been playing all these fighting games with sticks when I was younger, but I wasn’t exactly very GOOD at them. Back then, a dragon punch in my brain was mashing QCF until it popped up, hadoukens were standard issue, and horrifically telegraphed charge characters were the order of the day. Then my friend told me something during a match of Capcom vs SNK on the Dreamcast that changed my entire perception, and it was that a DP was actually “tapping forward, then doing a hadouken motion”. Suddenly my world was flipped. It was a literal Z on the control pad.

I could do 623s on command, without accidentally pulling out supers. Suddenly, I started experimenting with ALL 6 buttons on the control pad, instead of just the fierce buttons.

Problem was, I wasn’t doing it in an arcade, it was being done on a DC pad. And as I became more and more proficient at home, I could no longer use a stick, and I felt it. Motions like QCF+HCB that came so easy to me on a directional turned into a jumping mess when quarters were on the line. As the games became more complex, and I started delving into GGX2 and SF3 at length, I stopped caring. Arcades were slipping away anyhow.

…and here I am now. Cursing the man who invented it as my attempt at a command throw turns into a standing medium, and failed mixups lead to an extended loss of health.

I’m trying my hardest to use one of these things to no avail, and I find myself asking the real questions. Is this really worth it? What are the advantages, besides all the buttons on face? Years of playing on pads has me able to do throws, focus, taunts, even all three buttons for a teleport or ultra (WITHOUT the use of a Punch/Kick x3 button) with ease. Am I really at a huge disadvantage, and is this worth learning again? I genuinely feel like I’m behind the curve, and at the same time, I feel like I’m only drilling away at this control style because all of the people much better than I are using it.

How does everyone reading feel? Pad or Stick?

I have a feeling I already know the answer..have at me!

-E.P.


ExpertPenguin

When he isn't viewing the industry through his humorously cynical, analytical lens, ExpertPenguin can be found either editing the backbone of our humble, hardcore empire here at Chocolate Lemon, or neck deep in his latest game conquest. Gaming since '89 and writing about half as long, his biting, unapologetic means of calling the industry on it's foils and foibles are well earned and flexed often, along with an enthusiasm that makes you well aware of his calling. Though an unapologetic lover of Rhythm Action games of any flavor, his knowledge of the industry at large and unwavering passion that locks him into every genre (except Sports, sorry guys) make for some interesting conversation -- provided you can get a hold of him. He can be a bit of a ghost..

http://actualized-pixels.blogspot.com


  • news elsewhere on the web

  • http://clgamer.com phire

    your first three fingers and wrist (ring,pointer,middle) move faster than your thumbs.

    need proof. guitar hero/rock band/jubeat/

    also most tourney play doesn’t allow you to map buttons . And if you do travel to arcades once in a blue, unless you’re playing tekken there are no controller inputs.

  • ExpertPenguin

    So people who play DjMax on 8B PSP are fundamentally slower than people who play it on a keyboard?

    (No.)

    As someone who plays GH/Rock Band on Expert, I understand the analogy, but that sounds like a per-person thing as far as speed goes. I can personally pull a raging demon, or fire in Metal Slug faster on a pad than I can on a stick. Even when I’m “piano-ing” the shoot button.

    I also don’t remap buttons for a pad. I play default. Seems like it’s more common for arcade sticks to have their own custom inputs, requiring the scrolling through of menus..Wasn’t it David Sirlin (SSF2HDR) that criticized SF4 for not having a better remapping system?..

  • Cokelogic

    Pad player here.

    I’m with Phire on this one. Just as WASD + Mouse is superior to using a joystick in FPS games, Arcade sticks are superior to using a game pad in almost all fighting games.

    If what Phire says about macroing buttons in tourney play is true, you are already at a disadvantage when using a pad. It’s highly unlikely that you will be able to adjust your thumb to hit all three punch or kick buttons at the same speed as a stick user who already has all three fingers resting on the buttons and can input commands several milliseconds faster than you, which is apparently very important in terms of a game like street fighter, at least any frame-counting fan will tell you. And using your fingers for inputs on a controller while using your other hand to control the pad is just awkward, don’t let any tekken player tell you otherwise.

    You could probably argue that an arcade stick is a superior for controlling movement too, although I personally rather use a pad. Most people prefer playing it with the feel of a classic arcade cabinet though, and the entire community is centered around that feel

    >I don’t like your latency based input lag anyway. So there.

    Maybe Capcom should hook up with those OnLive guys so they can share their Tachyon-based technology to overcome latency.

  • ExpertPenguin

    @Cokelogic, great

    That, I can understand fully. Though, I think when we consider controllers, we forget that it isn’t solely a thumb based affair. Anyone holding a DS3, or at least, from my perspective, holds their pad with their thumb on the face buttons, and your index/middle fingers resting on R1/2 respectively.

    For EX moves, I press a face button and a trigger. For Ultras/Teleports/Lariats/Hops/TAPs, whatever, I can hit any two face buttons with my thumb and an index on a single R button with ease.

    Like I stated in my article, I do NOT use macros like Punch x3 at all.

    But I can understand the speed advantage other players have of having everything out in front. Also the classic feel that’s difficult to let go of, though I personally feel it’s more community pressure than anything.

    The only weakness I can wager in my mind is not being able to use a character like Balrog effectively at a high level, because it’s impossible to buffer a TAP into your strategy while using a pad. But he is ONE character.

    (And seriously. They should’ve went with GGPO at least.)

  • phire

    Button coverage.

    Music games are quasi decent example but at the same time you know(in most cases) what input you need to do before you hit there so you can cue yourself up, fighters are more reaction time.

    On reaction you’re faster piano-ing a move then specifically picking a strength or twitching it.

    think about the scrub ryu combo jab dp fadc DP+jab then mk+mp then dash to HCFx2 and 3 x punches.

    on stick it’s pointer finger for the dp, middle and thumb for the cancel then you just tap all 3 for the ultra.

    on pad if you don’t/can’t map/use a px3 button. it gets funky when you to ultra and cancel. if you map it so that x and square a punches and triangle and circle are your kicks. it’s a hairy situation when you have to fdac. to the ultra. it’s not impossible but

    also reaction time on cancels. you throw out a dp you can react quick to cancel it with more fingers than a thumb

    Granted pad is way more forgiving than a stick (that’s what she said)i.e low blocking and ambiguous charges. Also many players start out on pad (hell I was on pad for a while till I started moving to stick)but there are just somethings that will be coming easier on stick vs a pad.

    Maybe some chars flourish on pad?

    I think the mapping is fine. I haven’t seen a stick or controller you couldn’t map with the options in 4.

    He criticized the game was unfriendly to beginners when it was listed as causal because ‘advanced moves like two-button throws, complex link chains, and Ultra Combos make the game too difficult for casual players’. he criticized the menu configuration and the way the screen is designed. He’s a proponent of picking a function and pressing a button to assign it. That would be good but there’s limits to that.

    Stick def has it’s advantages and if you want to get to use them then practice it. Mike (from episode one) was a a serious pad head until I got him a stick to practice on. He hated it at first and now he loves it.

  • Cokelogic

    >They should’ve went with GGPO at least.

    Fukken agreed.

    Also I assumed you knew all of what I had posted already Penguin, I really posted just in case others didn’t understand why people prefer arcade sticks over a console controller.

    For most people, using the triggers for heavy or two other attacks in conjuction with only 4 face buttons for a 6 or 8 button fighter can be an awkward layout for most people accustomed to playing fighters in an arcade.

    And again, people generally prefer using a stick for inputs and movement rather than just a pad.

  • ExpertPenguin

    Phire, understood, although my thumb is long enough to hit THREE face buttons vertically, making FDACs not TOO much of a problem, I get you =P

    Coke, I think that’s where it lies with me, the movement gaffe.

    Not so much the button layout, because I overhand in Tekken, GGX, and MvC2/KOF, on pad, but it’s the stick that gets me, I think.

    Maybe I just need to tweak and mod this FS until it feels nice. Starting with this ball top. I’d rather a bat top, personally. I have large hands.

  • Cokelogic

    >I overhand in Tekken, GGX, and MvC2/KOF

    You bastard.

    Also I have the hands of a baby chimp, and yet I am still uncomfortable with both balltop and bat. My issue with a stick lies in more of just riding the ‘gate’ (putting to much pressure against the walls of the housing of the stick). My movements come out more smoothly on the fightpad.

  • http://streetwars.net Mike from episode one

    When I got back into SF (HD Remix of course) all I had was the stock 360 pad. It murderered (yes I added an er) my thumb. I couldn’t play for more then an hour at a time.
    Phire, kind soul that he is, offered me an Ex2 for free, as we have worked together before on “other projects”.

    I hated the stick when I first got it. Hated the square gate, would jump backwards when I wanted to walk etc.

    After a week I had gotten used to it, and low and behold I could do things that were not possible on a 360 pad (Vega’s Scarlet Terror juggle).

    It FEELS like I am playing on an arcade (minus the background noise and people of course) cabinet now.
    Ball top, six face bottons, tighter control, the fact that when I make a mistake it is me, not the controller, and therefore I can correct it. And unlike an arcade no one else wrecking the stick and buttons.

    On a stick I can hit Claw’s ultra 19 out of 20 tries. On a pad?

    Good luck with that.

  • ExpertPenguin

    Really have me feeling like I’m at a PA (Pad users Anonymous) meeting.

    Great..

  • http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v521/YuPing/ YuPing

    So I have a viewpoint that becomes more ridiculous the more I go over it. The game that actually taught me how to play fighting games was… *drumroll* Final Fantasy 6. Yes, Sabin was my gateway drug into fighting games. This was, of course, during the era where consoles were still climbing the gaming/consumer tower, and arcades were still the place to be for games (in Singapore, no less, so a much more active arcade culture as a whole).

    The lollypop stick was my weapon of choice, and would still be. As stated in earlier posts: when you can set up your fingers over buttons ahead of time, the combos are simply easier, quicker, and more precise. I don’t necessarily agree with the ‘hitting more buttons at the same time is easier’ argument, but combos definitely become more streamlined. Although I will concede the multiple button argument for things like trying to hit Triangle and X on a ps pad at the same time, because that is flat out annoying, and the only game I will regularly play claw for is Monster Hunter. Otherwise, for me, a pad is meant to be held in a specific way.
    Also, for those button mashing supers, I like being able to simply brush my fingers back and forth over the buttons for a ridiculous amount of input.

    Anyway, nowadays I use pads. I sadly have no real drive to get a stick, even tho I thoroughly believe them to be superior.

    Why?

    Take into account that I learned to play stick at the arcade (which seems obvious, but bear with me). Now take into account that, and I’m totally willing to admit, I use a bit of force when playing games, pressing in buttons or twirling the stick harder/faster than is truly necessary. Now remember that the environment where I learned to use the stick has one element that is nearly impossible to replicate with a personal arcade stick: It’s bolted to/part of the machine.

    When I use personal sticks, I don’t have the stability I need and the whole thing shifts on the table or slides off my lap. Maybe if I could get one with some sort of securing strap or something…. but, oh well.

    One part of me thinks I like them because it allows me to be more emphatic, more enthusiastic, more involved in the game. The motions and inputs are not restricted to my fingers anymore. I’d like to point out that I’m one of those people who lean when they make a turn in Mario Kart. Like, REALLY lean, turn the controller, and crane my neck. So being able to put my whole arm into throwing a Hadouken really makes me feel more immersed.

    Finally, and I know this sort of undermines my argument, there’s the part of me that holds an arcade stick and remembers what it was like to fight in the electronic chaos of an arcade. Totally subjective, non-factual, opinion based statement, but I can’t help that. Little moments of my childhood, both good and bad, come rushing back, like walking into a blazing arcade with multiple stories, and no matter where you stood, no matter what was being played near you, you can always hear Athena screaming “PSYCHO BALL!!” from across the gigantic, epileptic grand hall.

    *Sigh*

    Wow, that was a rant. Short version:
    I think sticks are better. You just won’t find me using one anytime soon.